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	<title>Comments for The Educated Society</title>
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	<link>http://theeducatedsociety.com</link>
	<description>A balanced and holistic perspective</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 28 May 2013 21:51:54 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Asians on Education: What Poverty? by Norman Eng</title>
		<link>http://theeducatedsociety.com/asians-on-education-what-poverty/#comment-22839</link>
		<dc:creator>Norman Eng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 May 2013 21:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theeducatedsociety.com/?p=450#comment-22839</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tom, good point re systemic discrimination. At the same time, there is a fine but distinct line between race and class, and they should not be conflated:
&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;
1) The systemic discrimination you speak of appears to be related to race, yet one might argue that the systemic discrimination in subsidized housing is related more to class/SES (i.e., neoliberalism - the &quot;movement&quot; to privatize goods), or at the very least, both. If you&#039;re interested, read my review of the book &quot;The New Political Economy of Urban Education,&quot; on 1/3/2013, which talks about the drive to displace poor (and yes, minority) people: http://theeducatedsociety.com/book-review-the-new-political-economy-of-urban-education/
&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;
2) For the same reason, I&#039;m not sure that the &quot;Moynihan-esque&quot; comment is applicable to the Hart &amp; Risley study. His inflammatory commentary were in regards to a &quot;deficit&quot; in the black family. H&amp;R&#039;s study, on the other hand, was about privileged and underprivileged families, which is based on class/SES. If H&amp;S&#039;s study is considered &quot;Moynihan-esque,&quot; then every advocacy group, study, or policy aimed at improving the disadvantaged (including Unicef, welfare policies, NCLB, etc.) would be &quot;Moynihan-esque.&quot; Moynihan&#039;s perspective was parochial, more than anything. 
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, good point re systemic discrimination. At the same time, there is a fine but distinct line between race and class, and they should not be conflated:</p>
<p>1) The systemic discrimination you speak of appears to be related to race, yet one might argue that the systemic discrimination in subsidized housing is related more to class/SES (i.e., neoliberalism &#8211; the &#8220;movement&#8221; to privatize goods), or at the very least, both. If you&#8217;re interested, read my review of the book &#8220;The New Political Economy of Urban Education,&#8221; on 1/3/2013, which talks about the drive to displace poor (and yes, minority) people: <a href="http://theeducatedsociety.com/book-review-the-new-political-economy-of-urban-education/" rel="nofollow">http://theeducatedsociety.com/book-review-the-new-political-economy-of-urban-education/</a></p>
<p>2) For the same reason, I&#8217;m not sure that the &#8220;Moynihan-esque&#8221; comment is applicable to the Hart &#038; Risley study. His inflammatory commentary were in regards to a &#8220;deficit&#8221; in the black family. H&#038;R&#8217;s study, on the other hand, was about privileged and underprivileged families, which is based on class/SES. If H&#038;S&#8217;s study is considered &#8220;Moynihan-esque,&#8221; then every advocacy group, study, or policy aimed at improving the disadvantaged (including Unicef, welfare policies, NCLB, etc.) would be &#8220;Moynihan-esque.&#8221; Moynihan&#8217;s perspective was parochial, more than anything. </p>
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		<title>Comment on Asians on Education: What Poverty? by Tom Link</title>
		<link>http://theeducatedsociety.com/asians-on-education-what-poverty/#comment-22774</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Link</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 05:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theeducatedsociety.com/?p=450#comment-22774</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think you need to consider systematic discrimination as part of the problem, both currently and historically.  Ignatiev&#039;s book &quot;How the Irish became White&quot; is a good example of the rise of a group of poor immigrants over a couple of generations - at the direct expense of African Americans living here, and often employed as a buffer between the Whites and Blacks at that time.

Second, I struggle with the results of Hart &amp; Risley - specifically the Moynihan-esque interpretations of them.  I hope we agree Moynihan made an effort to overlook the systematic discrimination that led the mix of ethnic whites to suburbs and Blacks to subsidized housing complexes (Race: The Power of an Illusion is the best video summary of it).  

I think this has left many African Americans with experience that education does not get them what it gets others.  The data in the 2011 Georgetown study shows that this may be accurate: Amara Philip (from GU&#039;s website): &quot;minorities would have to earn a master&#039;s degree to earn as much as White non-Hispanic with a bachelor&#039;s degree.&quot;  And I think about Nathan McCall, in his autobiography Makes Me Wanna Holler talking about how the curriculum doesn&#039;t relate to him.  I do think that was getting better, but the testing and teach to the standards/standardized curriculum may have moved that backwards.

I think the behaviors you mention are right on.  I think the causes are clearly more complex, and the history of discrimination and unequal treatment of different minorities needs to be before a simple &quot;poverty&quot; or &quot;culture&quot; variable.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you need to consider systematic discrimination as part of the problem, both currently and historically.  Ignatiev&#8217;s book &#8220;How the Irish became White&#8221; is a good example of the rise of a group of poor immigrants over a couple of generations &#8211; at the direct expense of African Americans living here, and often employed as a buffer between the Whites and Blacks at that time.</p>
<p>Second, I struggle with the results of Hart &amp; Risley &#8211; specifically the Moynihan-esque interpretations of them.  I hope we agree Moynihan made an effort to overlook the systematic discrimination that led the mix of ethnic whites to suburbs and Blacks to subsidized housing complexes (Race: The Power of an Illusion is the best video summary of it).  </p>
<p>I think this has left many African Americans with experience that education does not get them what it gets others.  The data in the 2011 Georgetown study shows that this may be accurate: Amara Philip (from GU&#8217;s website): &#8220;minorities would have to earn a master&#8217;s degree to earn as much as White non-Hispanic with a bachelor&#8217;s degree.&#8221;  And I think about Nathan McCall, in his autobiography Makes Me Wanna Holler talking about how the curriculum doesn&#8217;t relate to him.  I do think that was getting better, but the testing and teach to the standards/standardized curriculum may have moved that backwards.</p>
<p>I think the behaviors you mention are right on.  I think the causes are clearly more complex, and the history of discrimination and unequal treatment of different minorities needs to be before a simple &#8220;poverty&#8221; or &#8220;culture&#8221; variable.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What Can We Learn From the &#8220;One-Percent&#8221;? by Norman Eng</title>
		<link>http://theeducatedsociety.com/what-can-we-learn-from-the-one-percent/#comment-22351</link>
		<dc:creator>Norman Eng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Apr 2013 13:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theeducatedsociety.com/?p=1220#comment-22351</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Good to hear from you! I imagine that&#039;s why many feel the only recourse that can even the playing field is some sort of affirmative action that prevents the privileged from leveraging even more advantages.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good to hear from you! I imagine that&#8217;s why many feel the only recourse that can even the playing field is some sort of affirmative action that prevents the privileged from leveraging even more advantages.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What Can We Learn From the &#8220;One-Percent&#8221;? by Lynne Allen</title>
		<link>http://theeducatedsociety.com/what-can-we-learn-from-the-one-percent/#comment-22349</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynne Allen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Apr 2013 12:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theeducatedsociety.com/?p=1220#comment-22349</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi, Norman!  This is from your 7th grade teacher and former Headmistress!

Head Start was one of the best things the US did for children.  But I&#039;ve always felt that it started the push for earlier and earlier private school experiences, as people with money felt that if classes were good for poor kids, they&#039;d be even better for their own children, which in the long run, made it harder to level the playing field.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Norman!  This is from your 7th grade teacher and former Headmistress!</p>
<p>Head Start was one of the best things the US did for children.  But I&#8217;ve always felt that it started the push for earlier and earlier private school experiences, as people with money felt that if classes were good for poor kids, they&#8217;d be even better for their own children, which in the long run, made it harder to level the playing field.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The DOE Needs a Mission Statement by Norman Eng</title>
		<link>http://theeducatedsociety.com/the-doe-needs-a-mission-statement/#comment-18452</link>
		<dc:creator>Norman Eng</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2012 11:53:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theeducatedsociety.com/?p=590#comment-18452</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Are you suggesting that foreign language skills be part of the DOE&#039;s mission statement? If so, how should it be worded? Thanks for your comment.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you suggesting that foreign language skills be part of the DOE&#8217;s mission statement? If so, how should it be worded? Thanks for your comment.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The DOE Needs a Mission Statement by Frank</title>
		<link>http://theeducatedsociety.com/the-doe-needs-a-mission-statement/#comment-18439</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Sep 2012 03:49:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theeducatedsociety.com/?p=590#comment-18439</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Many Americans fall behind in the job market because they lack foreign language skills and can&#039;t complete higher math courses. American schools need to initiate a program of foreign language studies K-12 immediately. American schools need to initiate a program of math drills-like Kumon Math-immediately. By refusing to give students high quality math drills in K-5th grade, educators deprive them of the very thing they need most.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many Americans fall behind in the job market because they lack foreign language skills and can&#8217;t complete higher math courses. American schools need to initiate a program of foreign language studies K-12 immediately. American schools need to initiate a program of math drills-like Kumon Math-immediately. By refusing to give students high quality math drills in K-5th grade, educators deprive them of the very thing they need most.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Toward a Holistic Approach to Education by Andrea</title>
		<link>http://theeducatedsociety.com/toward-a-holistic-approach-to-education/#comment-18288</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2012 17:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theeducatedsociety.com/?p=680#comment-18288</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am so encouraged!!!  I am in the process of putting together a proposal and business plan to create my own school.  My vision is to educate the holistic way.My mission is to explain the philosophy and the purpose. I now have a sense of urgency in order to move this from a dream to a reality. My student population will be  Pre-K to Third Grade.I would greatly appreciate  ideas as to how to move forward. 
 I already have a realtor on board to assist with property locations, as well as a special education teacher,an early childhood specialist, and a social worker.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so encouraged!!!  I am in the process of putting together a proposal and business plan to create my own school.  My vision is to educate the holistic way.My mission is to explain the philosophy and the purpose. I now have a sense of urgency in order to move this from a dream to a reality. My student population will be  Pre-K to Third Grade.I would greatly appreciate  ideas as to how to move forward.<br />
 I already have a realtor on board to assist with property locations, as well as a special education teacher,an early childhood specialist, and a social worker.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Edu-Philanthropists&#8217; Dangerous Zero-Sum Game by TES</title>
		<link>http://theeducatedsociety.com/edu-philanthropists-dangerous-zero-sum-game/#comment-16002</link>
		<dc:creator>TES</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jun 2012 13:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theeducatedsociety.com/?p=1010#comment-16002</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, but as Hess mentioned -- private philanthropy is not a new concept. Because of limited resources, public institutions will always welcome private funding, and all private interests comes with strings attached and implied power. The key is to develop built-in mechanisms that keep these interests in check. That of course is the challenge.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but as Hess mentioned &#8212; private philanthropy is not a new concept. Because of limited resources, public institutions will always welcome private funding, and all private interests comes with strings attached and implied power. The key is to develop built-in mechanisms that keep these interests in check. That of course is the challenge.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Edu-Philanthropists&#8217; Dangerous Zero-Sum Game by mstrickl</title>
		<link>http://theeducatedsociety.com/edu-philanthropists-dangerous-zero-sum-game/#comment-15954</link>
		<dc:creator>mstrickl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 14:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theeducatedsociety.com/?p=1010#comment-15954</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Educational decision makers should never grant philanthropists power-access like Gates has been granted...and he is not the only billionaire that has unwarranted power-access.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Educational decision makers should never grant philanthropists power-access like Gates has been granted&#8230;and he is not the only billionaire that has unwarranted power-access.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Legislating Parenting is Still Missing the Point by Jaime Cifuentes</title>
		<link>http://theeducatedsociety.com/legislating-parenting-is-still-missing-the-point/#comment-14166</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaime Cifuentes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 12:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://theeducatedsociety.com/?p=740#comment-14166</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Although I agree with the basic premise of this article, more cooperation between home, school, and comminuties as a whole is paramount to successful students and citizens, it is always interesting to me that teachers, news people, etc don&#039;t  include the opinion of school psychologists. It is not a turf issue, but for example the correct terminology is seldom used in articles like this. Please review and learn the actual definition of &quot;negative reinforcement&quot; before using it in a commanding way. Hint: it is not punishment!, and NR actually increases the likelihood of a desired behavior to occur again. I hope you don&#039;t think I&#039;m corny for bringing this up.:-)
best,
Jaime]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Although I agree with the basic premise of this article, more cooperation between home, school, and comminuties as a whole is paramount to successful students and citizens, it is always interesting to me that teachers, news people, etc don&#8217;t  include the opinion of school psychologists. It is not a turf issue, but for example the correct terminology is seldom used in articles like this. Please review and learn the actual definition of &#8220;negative reinforcement&#8221; before using it in a commanding way. Hint: it is not punishment!, and NR actually increases the likelihood of a desired behavior to occur again. I hope you don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m corny for bringing this up.:-)<br />
best,<br />
Jaime</p>
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